آیا میشه that که ضمیر موصولیه رو‌به عنوان فاعل عبارت اسمی قرار داد؟

Question

مثلا میشه گفت I know that is a soldier? میشه that رو به عنوان ضمیر موصولی relative pronoun تو فاعل عبارت اسمی گذاشت؟

Comments

لطفا به این مدل بکار بردن that در اول جمله در لینک‌ زیر هم از این لحاظ که کل clause روی هم می تونه فاعل جمله باشه ولی در عین حال یک فاعل دیگر (she) نیز در جمله وجود داشته باشد توجه فرمایید ؛ اگرچه ممکن‌ است این مدل با موضوع مورد سئوال شما تفاوت داشته باشد. بهرحال ، هدف بنده از گذاشتن لینک زیر صرفا این است که با اون مدل فاعل بودن روی هم یک clause شروع شده با that هم آشنا بشوید و به همین دلیل بصورت پست نظر برای تان فرستادم تا با پاسخهای اصلی دوستان در تناقض نباشد : 

http://chimigan.com/96155/%D8%A7%DB%8C%D9%86%DA%A9%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%88-%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%B9-%D9%90%D8%AC%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%AF-%D8%8C-%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%81-%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B8%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%85-%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%AF

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Your link is irrelevant to the question! In 'That she was obedient to the group was my expection',  'that' is not the subject of the clause! Yes the red part (the whole clause altogether) is the subject of the sentence but inside the cluase 'she' is the subject since 'was' agrees with 'she' not that. Notice if you change 'she' into 'they' you have to use 'were': 'That they were obedient to the group was my expectation'. As a matter of fact 'When you use 'that' at the beginning of the sentence you mean 'The fact/the idea that...'

'The fact/idea that she was obedient to the group was my expectation'.  You can't claim 'that' is the subject of the clause. The only thing 'that' does in the sentence is signal the beginning of a noun clause nothing else.

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ممنون از همه. AchA از توضیح واضح و دقیقتون ممنونم. هرچند سنگین بود مقداری :-)

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I'm not sure if others would agree and I appreciate if they let me know here but you don't have to upvote everyone just to thank them. The point of upvoting is to find the most accurate answer. You could express your gratitude with a simple comment going like 'Thank you for your time/effort.'

Answer 1

Short answer: NO. 'That' as the relative pronoun cannot make noun clauses and stands as the subject of them.

Long answer: It seems you've confused 'that' as the relative pronoun with demonstrative pronoun 'that'. The underlying structure of your sentence is 'I know that that is a soldier.' You could replace the second 'that' with 'he' without changing the meaning of the sentence.

'I know that he is a soldier'

The first 'that' is NOT even a relative pronoun. It's called a 'complementizer.' However some consider it a relative pronoun but in either case it's not the subject of the clause.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementizer

I assume you already know the difference between an 'adjective clause' and a 'noun clause.' 'That' can function as the subject of an 'adjectice clause' as an instance,

'I know a soldier that is tall'

'that' here cannot be replaced by 'he' since it would be grammatically wrong.

*'I know a soldier he is tall'

Let me give you some more examples of noun clauses with different relative pronouns.

You can say 'I know who did it' and here 'who' is the subject of the relative clause but you can't say '*I know THAT did it.' Other examples would be

'I belived what happened there was a tragedy.' NOT 'I believe THAT happened there was a tradegy.'

'I learned which/what can be used safely in this recipe.' NOT 'I learned THAT can be used in this recipe.' 

(Here the sentence would be right if we thought of 'that' as a demostrative pronoun. Obviously if we do this the meaning of the sentence will be changed. It would mean: I learned IT can be used safely in this recipe)

'Who is to blame doesn't matter now.' NOT 'That is to blame doesn't matter now.'

I know what made the noise last night. NOT I know that made the noise last night.

The whole noun clause can work as the object or the subject, nothing new about that, but the relative pronoun 'that' can't be the subject of the noun clause. 

As I mentioned above, I can think of clauses in which 'that' is the subject as in,

'I had a house that was blue.' 

but it's not a noun clause but an adjective clause.

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In a nutshell, in noun clauses with 'that' you have to follow this order,

....that + subject of the clause + verb

In other words 'That' cannot be the subject of a Noun Clause.

Comments

If you think there's a sentence in which relative pronoun 'that' is the subject of a noun clause. Post it under my comment here. We'll talk more.

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پس اگه that بخواد فاعل باشه تو عبارت اسمی باید بعدش فعل بیاد؟

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دوست عزیز that اصلا تو عبارت اسمی که خود that تو عبارت نقش فاعل باشه نمیتونه بیاد. فقط در عبارات صفتی adjetive clause فقط میتونه فاعل باشه مثلا I have a house that is blue بله اینجا that فاعل عبارت شماست اما noun clause نیست adj.C هست. شما قسمت آخر رو بخونید. تو عبارات اسمی that اونجوری استفاده میشه مثلا I know that he is a soldier. اینجا قسمت هایلایت شده object جمله است و یک عبارت اسمی. بعد از that فاعل فعل is اومده. تو کامنت بالام گفتم that تو عبارت اسمی فقط نشان میده که عبارت اسمی آغاز شد.

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شما برو این لینک رو. 

https://www.englishgrammar.org/thatclause-noun-clause/

اینجا تمام حالاتی که that عبارت اسمی میشه باشه رو داره. تو هیچکدوم that فاعل نیست.

Answer 2

بله، می‌شود. that در اینجا ضمیر فاعلی است. کل جملۀ that is a soldier هم مفعول جملۀ اصلی است.

Comments

'That' is not a relative pronoun in the OP's sentence. It's a demostrative pronoun.

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Did I say that it is? I answered the question "میشه گفت I know that is a soldier?".

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The question is : Is it possible to use 'that' ('that' itself not the whole clause starting with it) as the relative pronoun functioning as the subject in a noun clause?